right, I know it's your personal blog, but I think it is a bit odd to blog about game design in half your posts and politics the other half. I think you should start a second blog for one.
The very fact that you'd post a poem from the cess pool of Anti-Americanism that is Daily Kos speaks volumes about your political leanings and inability to see past your derranged hatred of President of Bush. (mostly because he is President, not of your party, and is a Christian(tolerant much?)). It kills me how tolerant you leftists say you are. But of Christianity? Nope, not an ounce of tolerance. All Christians are fundamentalists to you, period.
The people at Kos have all but said that they don't even support the armed forces in their endeavor to fight terror in Iraq. They have have callously told former soldiers and former members of the special forces "Screw Them" as their dead bodies hung off a bridge in Fallujah. Thats not a dissenting opinion, that is just plain disgusting.
Rest assured, I won't be buying a product that bears the name of someone who would quote from there. Your public rantings about Bush do affect your livelyhood. Remember that.
Oh no! Walmart won't be carrying anymore of Erik's stuff... wait a sec, Walmart doesn't carry his stuff. Phew! As if 'anonymous' would buy Satan worshipping books anyway.
What is this? Progressive liberals generalizing a painting all Christians as bible thumping, Wal-Mart shopping lack wits that think playing D&D is Satanic. How very progressive and tolerant of you. Oh wait, liberals just claim to be tolerant of other cultures and religions, unless its Christianity. My mistake.
As far as that link goes, associating that monster of a woman with modern Christianity only shows your complete lack of knowledge about Christians. Every religion has its fanatics... if your view of Christians wasn't spoon fed to you by CNN or sites like KOS you might actually learn that the vast majority of them are good people.
Those men that were killed in Iraq were veterans, many of the ex-special forces who have done more to safe guard our freedoms than you will ever know. You quoted a poem from a site that said "screw them" to veterans. That this doesn't bother you is all the evidence one needs of pathetic lack of respect for these men.
Oh and they weren't fighting terror? Zarqawi and his thugs target Iraqi children purposefully, and that doesn't fit the term "terrorist" to you? Sad.
Ah, poor liberals, Rove wasn't frogmarched out of the White House like you wanted. Whatever will you do in November now?
And where did all this Christianity ranting and raving come from, anyway?
Kos said something crass about corporate mercenaries more than two years ago, so I'm supposed to shy away from posting a funny link to a funny poem?
Fox News is a cesspool of propaganda, but if someone says something amusing on Fox News, I'm supposed to ignore it because Bill O'Reilly is a piece of shit? If I think it's worth putting on my blog, it's going on my blog.
Speaking of which, do you have a blog? I'd love to compare your opinions and mine, only I can't, because you're hiding behind an anonymous name.
Weak.
For all your concern about veterans, why do you support a war plan with no exit strategy, no clear enemy, no plan to provide soldiers with necessary protective equipment, and no agenda other than exploiting the victims of 9/11 by conflating the still uncaptured, still unkilled Osama Bin Laden with Saddam Hussein?
Are we to blindly follow the immoral and illegal exploits of our Commander and Chief simply because he is our leader?
Do you not see that we are opening a Pandora's Box in the Middle East, and that our presence in Iraq has done more to harm our international standing than any other event in our lifetimes?
The day after 9/11, the whole world wept with us. People all over the world reached out to us in sympathy, but instead of moving forward together, we decided to go the route of Guantanamo and Abu Gharib and Haiditha. Do you really think, with a few years hindsight, that that was the right decision?
Zarquawi is dead, but so are tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. Which deaths do you think will have a greater impact on the War on Terror?
Do you honestly believe that "fighting them over there" makes us safer "over here"? Or is it true that "oceans no longer protect us," as Bush recently said. Please let me know, because I am having difficulty understanding how anyone in their right mind could continue to support the disastrous foreign policy of what will surely be remembered as one of the most disastrous administrations in history, if it doesn't end up making it all irrelevant by triggering World War III.
And as we watch our civil liberties go down the toilet, are we just supposed to smile and muffle dissent?
What does posting with your real name have to do with the subject matter? I mean really, what is your problem with that. I don’t have a blogger account and I don’t wish to register one. Therefore I post as Anonymous.
I was hardly ranting about Christianity, but your views about Christians are Christianity are found all over your website here and there throughout our posts. Almost always in a negative tone.
Corporate mercenaries? Everyone of those men were former soldiers that were no longer active in the armed forces and joined Blackwater as a means to contribute. Calling them Mercenaries belittles their efforts, which usually consisted of guarding diplomats or figures import to the cause of freedom in Iraq. To be so crass about their dedication and their deaths is low, to say the least. If you can’t see why posting to a place like that might upset people that do support the military and their mission then I don’t know what to say.
I won’t for a minute dispute that Fox News has a right wing agenda. Do you then say that CNN doesn’t have a liberal agenda? That CBS doesn’t have a liberal agenda focused against a sitting President during an election and a time of war? What is wrong with having an opinion different than yours on a news station? Fox has very good ratings because a lot of people are looking for refuge from the liberal bias present in mainstream media. (A fact proven by a study at Berkley mind you)
No I don’t have a blog, I don’t really have the time for it. Once again, what does my name have to do with anything? I’m hardly weak. For the record, my name is Nelson. Does this somehow change anything?
A war with no exit strategy? The President has put forth the exit strategy until he is blue in the face. When the Iraqis are ready to fight the insurgents and terrorists that plague that country on their own, the coalition will stand down. That is really simple, why can’t the left seem to get that?
Militarily and strategically the War on Terror has been widely successful. Why don’t you check the casualties that were taken on one morning at Iwo Jima and Utah beach and compare them to the War on Terror which has been waged for five years. The differences are astronomical. As far as our soldiers being ill equipped, we have the best equipped army in the world. The troops on the ground have adapted and overcome where there were inadequacies and win every single major combat engagement that they become involved in. I also find the fact that someone that probably voted for John F. Kerry can talk about equipping the troops with a straight face, when the man voted against funding those very troops.
How exactly does conducting the war on terror exploit the victims of 9/11? Are you saying that if we are ever attacked we can’t respond with military force because you and yours think its exploiting the victims? We might as well invite the North Koreans and Iran to destroy us.
Remember, Osama Bin Laden’s boldness in attacking America stemmed from a democrat President’s decision to retreat in Somalia because we lost nineteen soldiers that were trying to aid the people of Mogadishu. Weakness in the face of such an enemy invites more attacks and more violence against Americans. Oh and the choice to cut and run then was loudly supported by Jack Murtha. The left’s unassailable poster boy of the month.
Prosecuting the war on terror is neither illegal or immoral it is a necessity.
The Middle East is and has been a Pandora’s Box. One that was set to open eventually.
Lets see, we have liberated 24 million people from one of the most brutal dictators since Hitler and you think that is what affected our international standing? With who, the French? The Germans? Both of which were illegally profiting from the Oil for Food program, had secret and illegal oil deals with Saddam and were selling arms to him. If our standing isn’t so high in their eyes I won’t lose any sleep over that.
Ah, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and Haditha. The liberal trifecta. Okay, so tell me, what should be we do with men like Khalid Mohammed, the man responsible for planning the September 11th attacks, the Cole attacks and the Khobar tower attacks? What would be do with their ilk. These men are battlefield captives and the war is still waging. To let them go would be tactical suicide. In fact one was let go and later he committed a terrorist act in Turkey.
Abu Ghraib was a criminal act committed by a few bad seeds, you can hardly judge the entire conflict by their actions. The marines involved in whatever happened in Haditha are currently facing charges, but people like you and John Murtha don’t see fit to give them due process. Now that is weak.
In a few years, when Iraq is a functioning democracy in the middle of the Middle Eastern tyrannies, yes I firmly believe it will have been the right choice. Saddam was already funding terrorists in Palestine and to think that he, or eventually his maniac sons should not be part of a global strategy against terror is terribly short sighted.
Yes, Zarqawi is dead as are tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. Zarqawi was responsible for a great many of them.
Fighting them over there DOES make us safer here. The jihadis around the world, and there is a massive jihadist movement, are flocking to fight the American army in Iraq and Afghanistan. They do not have as many safe havens and training grounds because of the actions the President took. Our armed forces are facing them daily, gaining intelligence that would not have been accessible elsewhere, staging the fight on the coalition’s terms, not the jihadists. Did you, perhaps hear about the terror attack that was to take place in New York’s subway tunnels? Al-Zawahiri called off that attack when the invasion of Iraq began. Why? Most likely because resources needed to be diverted to fighting the military and another attack on US soil would further cement the American public’s support of the war. Proof perfect of a successful strategy. I remember the President raising the terror level in New York around that time and democrats saying that is was some kind of ploy.
Woah! The old civil liberties canard. Which of your civil liberties have been trampled? Are you less free today? If so, how? You know I saw some pictures today of some left wingers protesting an march in support of Israel. These people were carrying signs that said “support the insurgency”. Is that person’s civil liberties being trampled upon? I’m sorry, but choose another subject because on that front you’ve got nothing.
Your post, while little more than a collection of talking points, is worth responding to point-by-point. I will do so, assuming I have the time, on the front page of this blog, and we can really get rolling.
But I do not expect to undo a lifetime of programming with a single post.
I should add that my concerns about eroding civil liberties have far more to do with increased government surveillance, decreasing privacy, increased police powers, and a healthy dose of increased domestic military action (a la mobilizing the national guard) than they do with whether or not a private citizen is allowed to hold a sign protesting a parade.
I take that basic level of freedom of expression as a given, and so should you.
"How exactly does conducting the war on terror exploit the victims of 9/11? Are you saying that if we are ever attacked we can’t respond with military force because you and yours think its exploiting the victims? We might as well invite the North Koreans and Iran to destroy us."
You see, if you came over here and kicked me in the nuts, and then I went over there and kicked you back, that would be responding. If I instead went over there and kicked someone who "looked a bit like you", and then stole their wallet, what's that?
I can't really think of anything more petty than trolling on someone else's blog. You obviously know far less about the current political climate than you claim to.
Who are the major share holders of the major news networks? Do you have any idea who Markos Moulitsas is? If you did you would understand his comments on those mercenaries (especially when not quoted out of context).
Like me he is a recovering Republican that couldn't take any more poor leadership. James Webb is just one example of someone from the Reagan camp who can't stand Bush's politics.
Oh and that radio button that says Other? It lets you put your real name and web page, or in your case, Bill O'Reilly's web page.
You know what, lets stop this right here and now Erik. Your condescending comment about my supposedly being programmed is beyond contempt. Is everyone on the other side of the political debate simply programmed? Everyone with a differing political opinion somehow less enlightened than you?
Talking points Erik? I was merely responding to yours, which are right in line with democrat talking points that are seen every single day. Again, you have to label my opinions as someone else's rather than being things that I actually believe and have given thought to.
As far as the tone of your other posters. I’ve been labeled a Wal-Mart shopping fundamentalist Christian and loves Bill O’Reilly and is spoon fed their beliefs by Fox News. I am not a Christian, I hate O’Reilly and rarely watch the mainstream media, including Fox. I’m certain you won’t believe that, especially Craig C. Its hardly trolling to respond politically on a site that discusses politics, by the way.
I know exactly who Markos is, and you assume ignorance on my part without knowing. You also refuse to acknowledge that the mean that he said “Screw Them” too were veterans of the armed forces that were over there because they wanted to help, not mere mercenaries.
The whole point was that I totally disagree with linking to a site that said that about US veterans. It was reprehensible. I can handle that you have politics on your blog, though I admit coming here looking for gaming material, because I happen to find Erik to be one of the most talented and inventive game designers around. His management of the Adventure Paths is amazing. However, as I thumb through gaming material there is only so much I could take before saying something.
I could go on, but it is really pointless at this juncture. You can hardly have a debate when one side is "programmed" anyway. I won't puruse the debate any further and I won't be returning.
Nelson, Your attempt to keep claiming the moral high ground, and your running away from the debate you started both seem disingenuous.
Blogs are all about a combination of talking points, venting, wish-fulfillment, and the very occasional actual crystal-clear insight, as we see above. A site you yourself frequent is mostly full of one-line zingers that are crude, hateful, and lowlife -- I'm talking about Little Green Footballs where I just read your comment #65 on some silly-shit controversy which has no substance. It led me here. Here it is: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21135_Daily_Kos-_How_Quaint#comments . At the same time you've left your halfway-decent debate with Eric here, you basically invited a bunch of redneck morons from LGF, (as opposed to the panty-wearing morons at Kos) to come and troll this blog, didn't you? Gotchya, you shit-slinger! Ha.
#65 ManInBlack 6/20/2006 08:01AM PDT
My debate with a KOS-loving liberal has ended over this site: http://www.superunic... I couldn't take it anymore, my blood pressure was through the roof. But its fairly typical of KOS liberals.
So, be real Johnny--er--Nelson. You're no different than anyone else. You have your moments of intellect, and your moments of taking the low road, or being condescending. Blog debates are a lot like relationship spats.
Blogs are occasionally insightful, but mostly recreation, face it, or even masturbation. As this guy says in this big newspaper says http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1788774,00.html :
...There's no point debating anything online. You might as well hurl shoes in the air to knock clouds from the sky. The internet's perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain't one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional "live audience" quickly conspire to create a "perfect storm" of perpetual bickering.
Stumble in, take umbrage with someone, trade a few blows, and within about two or three exchanges, the subject itself goes out the window. Suddenly you're simply arguing about arguing. Eventually, one side gets bored, comes to its senses, or dies, and the row fizzles out: just another needless belch in the swirling online guffstorm...
Excellent post, I mean article. All this talk in the "blogosphere" is...just talk. Don't take yourselves so seriously.
I feel what I write very strongly. I'm really sad about what the right wing has done to America. I have problems with the left as well. But something I have no illusion about is that my "blog" amounts to a hill of beans. It's just practice, and fun. It's worth doing, but this is a playground. I'm a wannabe journalist, or better yet: Op-Ed Columnist for the Washington Times--no, the NY Times. Yeah, that' it. The power to convince. Nicholas Kristof has got the best job in the world.
By the way, didn't Bush apologize for Abu Ghraib, or however you spell it? That ought to make it all right. We're the best, us 'Mericans, and them ragheads deserve themselves. We don't need to respect such pansy niceties as our own laws--they sure as fuck wouldn't, now would they?
Also, apropos of nothing, I'm currently enjoying "Unchained". 'Least Texas Nelson and I can agree on one thing. Another one in that vein is Warren Zevon's "Keep Me in Your Heart".
Enemy combatants captured by the US and imprisoned.
Let's see...
Some prisoners were made fun of and humiliated by a few undisciplined soldiers at Abu Ghraib and the left has a cow. No, it's more than a cow, why, the US is evil and led by the evil BushHitler.
Enemy combatants captured by Al-Queda and....
They are not imprisoned but brutally tortured and beheaded and not a peep from the left. Hmmmm? Human rights watch? Anyone?
I don't dream that I can change the hatred for the US that the left has but the emperical evidence speaks for itself. Basically there is not much difference between the mind of a lefty and Al-Queda. Really. Only thing that doesn't add up to me is "why the hell are you America haters still living in the USA?"
*Rant off*
Like I mentioned earlier, there's no way I can change the thinking of you America/Bush haters. There are two sides to everything. I'm just glad I'm on the right side.
I think you totally missed the point. No-one should get tortured, beheaded etc ... The left gets all upset when America who *should know better* does that shit, but they were still upset before.
Since Anonymous slinked off into the land of self-righteousness, I will instead focus my attentions upon Daniel. Daniel, before you throw up your hands in frustration and follow in Nelson's footprints, I urge you to stick around a while. Despite the political nature of some of my posts, this is not exclusively a political blog, and there is plenty of fun stuff to talk about that I'm sure we both agree on.
That said, I think I need to respond to your post by cutting and pasting. It is an annoying and artless form of discourse, I know, but it will have to do.
>>> ome prisoners were made fun of and humiliated by a few undisciplined soldiers at Abu Ghraib and the left has a cow. No, it's more than a cow, why, the US is evil and led by the evil BushHitler. >>>
Some prisoners were harshly terrorized with attack dogs, rape, humiliation, psychological torture, stress positions, and worse. Let us not minimize what happened there as some sort of college prank. It is not just the left that "had a cow," but indeed the whole world.
The horrifying pictures from Abu Ghraib did more damage to America's standing in the world that the original invasion had in the first place. Those photographs will forever characterize the nature of the US occupation of Iraq for millions of people across the world. People we could really use as friends, especially in that volatile region of the world.
Some of the psychological tactics used against the detainees at Abu Ghraib were designed specifically to insult the Muslim faith. Is that a good way of winning the "hearts and minds" of the Arab people?
Those photographs _will_ be used successfully to recruit members of Al-Queda.
There is plenty of evidence that the torture at Abu Ghraib was systemic, and that it came about as a result of policy going all the way up to the president, and certainly to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Presidents are supposed to set a noble example for the American people. This is one of the reasons Bill Clinton was excoriated for his sexual affair and his subsequent lying about it. "What are we supposed to tell our children?" people often asked, voices shaking with righteous indignation.
I'm not excusing Clinton. I don't care for his politics, either. But bear with me for a moment.
The president and his administration have loosened restrictions on torture at every turn. They have referred to the Geneva Conventions as "quaint," have practised "extraordinary rendition" to ferret prisoners to countries that brazenly torture. Many have died, some of them assuredly innocent.
What the hell sort of example is that supposed to set for our children?
Is the point that this is a "new kind of war," requiring new kind of thinking at tactics? If that's you position, fine, I can respect that.
But please understand that these "new rules" involve torturing people, and that didn't used to be ok in America.
>>> Enemy combatants captured by Al-Queda and....
They are not imprisoned but brutally tortured and beheaded and not a peep from the left. Hmmmm? Human rights watch? Anyone? >>>
The left, by and large, takes it for granted that people shouldn't be beheaded.
Or tortured.
>>> I don't dream that I can change the hatred for the US that the left has but the emperical evidence speaks for itself. >>>
I do not hate America, and nor does anyone I know. Many Americans are concerned about the direction our government has gone in the last several years, but I know of no one worth listening to who hates America. In fact, most of the "outrage" of the left is driven by deep and hopeful love for the ideals of this great country.
>>> Basically there is not much difference between the mind of a lefty and Al-Queda. Really. >>>
Listen to yourself. You are equating a difference of opinion between fellow Americans with a struggle against violent extremists who wish to see the country destroyed, and who have murdered thousands of Americans.
Why?
Do you not acknowledge that there is a basic American right to disagree with the government, and to say so loudly and in an unhindered fashion? That is freedom of expression, sir, and there is a reason why it is first among our Constitutional rights.
I assume, as an American, that you respect those rights. I certainly respect that your different political opinions make you no less "American" than me. You are not "the enemy," you're simply an American who has looked at the facts as best as he is able, and come away with a different conclusion than me.
You are not Al-Queda. You are not the enemy. And neither am I.
I really don't understand why the 30-percenters like to down play the affect that Abu Ghraib has had on "our" 'War Against Terror'.
I happen to have personal experience with taking Iraqi's prisoner and how the rules of warfare and the Geneva Convention were directly relayed to ground forces before Operation Desert Storm. What happened in Abu Ghraib wasn't a couple of enlisted troops taking matters in their own hands, those pictures were taken because they were enacting an accepted policy for coercion that was passed down from above.
What we have created in Iraq is the new breeding ground for Al-Qiada and what we have done is placed a bulls-eye on our troops for them to be the targets of Syrian teenagers, out of work Saddam supporters, Iraqi's who hate America and anyone else that we care to throw the label of terrorist on.
Of course we feel outraged that another two service men were brutalized and killed, but the problem doesn't end with just two. 2500+ have died, and we are definitely less safe now then we were after the ground war ended in Afghanistan. (Which is becoming even more dangerous daily due to our over-commitment in Iraq.)
The only reason that we aren't talking about a true coalition of forces to take over policing actions in Iraq is because we have completely alienated all of Europe and have no one to turn to.
There is growing list of former Republicans that are sick of everything this administration stands for and we are going to see that very clearly in the coming elections.
I'm going to go ahead and apologize for coming into your blog and blasting you the way I did. It was a bad week and I was looking for some good gaming stuff... when I came across the quote I guess it was too much after a long day.
While I despise KOS for what he said you merely linking to him shouldn't have set me off the way it did. While we disagree on everything politically, I think you are a great game designer and have done amazing things at Dungeon. So, I apologize.
That said, I'd love it if you launched an "all gaming" website.
Well, its just that its a generalizing stereotype. Now, I do occassionally shop at Wal-Mart, its hard not to in the south. But no, I don 't like being compared to the average Wal-Mart redneck shoppers down here. Its quite an insult, if you know what I mean. There actually is a true stereotype in there, I see it everyday, and isn't pretty. If you saw it you'd be offended at being compared to it as well.
30 Comments:
Nice photo.
right, I know it's your personal blog, but I think it is a bit odd to blog about game design in half your posts and politics the other half. I think you should start a second blog for one.
Is that the proverbial finger on the button?
Thought you would be dying to see these, Erik.
Lets hope they increase team speed and performance.
POST MORE DAMN YOU!!!
(and mention me too >:) )
I second that Obscurica. Maybe you could tell us something about Erik to spur him on ;)
The very fact that you'd post a poem from the cess pool of Anti-Americanism that is Daily Kos speaks volumes about your political leanings and inability to see past your derranged hatred of President of Bush. (mostly because he is President, not of your party, and is a Christian(tolerant much?)). It kills me how tolerant you leftists say you are. But of Christianity? Nope, not an ounce of tolerance. All Christians are fundamentalists to you, period.
The people at Kos have all but said that they don't even support the armed forces in their endeavor to fight terror in Iraq. They have have callously told former soldiers and former members of the special forces "Screw Them" as their dead bodies hung off a bridge in Fallujah. Thats not a dissenting opinion, that is just plain disgusting.
Rest assured, I won't be buying a product that bears the name of someone who would quote from there. Your public rantings about Bush do affect your livelyhood. Remember that.
Oh no! Walmart won't be carrying anymore of Erik's stuff... wait a sec, Walmart doesn't carry his stuff. Phew! As if 'anonymous' would buy Satan worshipping books anyway.
By the way 'anonymous' I liked your interview on Fox news.
(Sorry Erik, these people piss me off. And that fat bastard Rove just got off the hook. Arrrrgh!)
Yep, what those poor dead soldiers in Iraq were doing was "fighting terror"; no one pulls the wool over your eyes Anonymous!
Also, Erik, post more, mention Obscurica.
What is this? Progressive liberals generalizing a painting all Christians as bible thumping, Wal-Mart shopping lack wits that think playing D&D is Satanic. How very progressive and tolerant of you. Oh wait, liberals just claim to be tolerant of other cultures and religions, unless its Christianity. My mistake.
As far as that link goes, associating that monster of a woman with modern Christianity only shows your complete lack of knowledge about Christians. Every religion has its fanatics... if your view of Christians wasn't spoon fed to you by CNN or sites like KOS you might actually learn that the vast majority of them are good people.
Those men that were killed in Iraq were veterans, many of the ex-special forces who have done more to safe guard our freedoms than you will ever know. You quoted a poem from a site that said "screw them" to veterans. That this doesn't bother you is all the evidence one needs of pathetic lack of respect for these men.
Oh and they weren't fighting terror? Zarqawi and his thugs target Iraqi children purposefully, and that doesn't fit the term "terrorist" to you? Sad.
Ah, poor liberals, Rove wasn't frogmarched out of the White House like you wanted. Whatever will you do in November now?
I post using my real name.
Why don't you?
And where did all this Christianity ranting and raving come from, anyway?
Kos said something crass about corporate mercenaries more than two years ago, so I'm supposed to shy away from posting a funny link to a funny poem?
Fox News is a cesspool of propaganda, but if someone says something amusing on Fox News, I'm supposed to ignore it because Bill O'Reilly is a piece of shit? If I think it's worth putting on my blog, it's going on my blog.
Speaking of which, do you have a blog? I'd love to compare your opinions and mine, only I can't, because you're hiding behind an anonymous name.
Weak.
For all your concern about veterans, why do you support a war plan with no exit strategy, no clear enemy, no plan to provide soldiers with necessary protective equipment, and no agenda other than exploiting the victims of 9/11 by conflating the still uncaptured, still unkilled Osama Bin Laden with Saddam Hussein?
Are we to blindly follow the immoral and illegal exploits of our Commander and Chief simply because he is our leader?
Do you not see that we are opening a Pandora's Box in the Middle East, and that our presence in Iraq has done more to harm our international standing than any other event in our lifetimes?
The day after 9/11, the whole world wept with us. People all over the world reached out to us in sympathy, but instead of moving forward together, we decided to go the route of Guantanamo and Abu Gharib and Haiditha. Do you really think, with a few years hindsight, that that was the right decision?
Zarquawi is dead, but so are tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. Which deaths do you think will have a greater impact on the War on Terror?
Do you honestly believe that "fighting them over there" makes us safer "over here"? Or is it true that "oceans no longer protect us," as Bush recently said. Please let me know, because I am having difficulty understanding how anyone in their right mind could continue to support the disastrous foreign policy of what will surely be remembered as one of the most disastrous administrations in history, if it doesn't end up making it all irrelevant by triggering World War III.
And as we watch our civil liberties go down the toilet, are we just supposed to smile and muffle dissent?
Is that really the American way of doing things?
I think not.
What does posting with your real name have to do with the subject matter? I mean really, what is your problem with that. I don’t have a blogger account and I don’t wish to register one. Therefore I post as Anonymous.
I was hardly ranting about Christianity, but your views about Christians are Christianity are found all over your website here and there throughout our posts. Almost always in a negative tone.
Corporate mercenaries? Everyone of those men were former soldiers that were no longer active in the armed forces and joined Blackwater as a means to contribute. Calling them Mercenaries belittles their efforts, which usually consisted of guarding diplomats or figures import to the cause of freedom in Iraq. To be so crass about their dedication and their deaths is low, to say the least. If you can’t see why posting to a place like that might upset people that do support the military and their mission then I don’t know what to say.
I won’t for a minute dispute that Fox News has a right wing agenda. Do you then say that CNN doesn’t have a liberal agenda? That CBS doesn’t have a liberal agenda focused against a sitting President during an election and a time of war? What is wrong with having an opinion different than yours on a news station? Fox has very good ratings because a lot of people are looking for refuge from the liberal bias present in mainstream media. (A fact proven by a study at Berkley mind you)
No I don’t have a blog, I don’t really have the time for it. Once again, what does my name have to do with anything? I’m hardly weak. For the record, my name is Nelson. Does this somehow change anything?
A war with no exit strategy? The President has put forth the exit strategy until he is blue in the face. When the Iraqis are ready to fight the insurgents and terrorists that plague that country on their own, the coalition will stand down. That is really simple, why can’t the left seem to get that?
Militarily and strategically the War on Terror has been widely successful. Why don’t you check the casualties that were taken on one morning at Iwo Jima and Utah beach and compare them to the War on Terror which has been waged for five years. The differences are astronomical. As far as our soldiers being ill equipped, we have the best equipped army in the world. The troops on the ground have adapted and overcome where there were inadequacies and win every single major combat engagement that they become involved in. I also find the fact that someone that probably voted for John F. Kerry can talk about equipping the troops with a straight face, when the man voted against funding those very troops.
How exactly does conducting the war on terror exploit the victims of 9/11? Are you saying that if we are ever attacked we can’t respond with military force because you and yours think its exploiting the victims? We might as well invite the North Koreans and Iran to destroy us.
Remember, Osama Bin Laden’s boldness in attacking America stemmed from a democrat President’s decision to retreat in Somalia because we lost nineteen soldiers that were trying to aid the people of Mogadishu. Weakness in the face of such an enemy invites more attacks and more violence against Americans. Oh and the choice to cut and run then was loudly supported by Jack Murtha. The left’s unassailable poster boy of the month.
Prosecuting the war on terror is neither illegal or immoral it is a necessity.
The Middle East is and has been a Pandora’s Box. One that was set to open eventually.
Lets see, we have liberated 24 million people from one of the most brutal dictators since Hitler and you think that is what affected our international standing? With who, the French? The Germans? Both of which were illegally profiting from the Oil for Food program, had secret and illegal oil deals with Saddam and were selling arms to him. If our standing isn’t so high in their eyes I won’t lose any sleep over that.
Ah, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and Haditha. The liberal trifecta. Okay, so tell me, what should be we do with men like Khalid Mohammed, the man responsible for planning the September 11th attacks, the Cole attacks and the Khobar tower attacks? What would be do with their ilk. These men are battlefield captives and the war is still waging. To let them go would be tactical suicide. In fact one was let go and later he committed a terrorist act in Turkey.
Abu Ghraib was a criminal act committed by a few bad seeds, you can hardly judge the entire conflict by their actions. The marines involved in whatever happened in Haditha are currently facing charges, but people like you and John Murtha don’t see fit to give them due process. Now that is weak.
In a few years, when Iraq is a functioning democracy in the middle of the Middle Eastern tyrannies, yes I firmly believe it will have been the right choice. Saddam was already funding terrorists in Palestine and to think that he, or eventually his maniac sons should not be part of a global strategy against terror is terribly short sighted.
Yes, Zarqawi is dead as are tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. Zarqawi was responsible for a great many of them.
Fighting them over there DOES make us safer here. The jihadis around the world, and there is a massive jihadist movement, are flocking to fight the American army in Iraq and Afghanistan. They do not have as many safe havens and training grounds because of the actions the President took. Our armed forces are facing them daily, gaining intelligence that would not have been accessible elsewhere, staging the fight on the coalition’s terms, not the jihadists. Did you, perhaps hear about the terror attack that was to take place in New York’s subway tunnels? Al-Zawahiri called off that attack when the invasion of Iraq began. Why? Most likely because resources needed to be diverted to fighting the military and another attack on US soil would further cement the American public’s support of the war. Proof perfect of a successful strategy. I remember the President raising the terror level in New York around that time and democrats saying that is was some kind of ploy.
Woah! The old civil liberties canard. Which of your civil liberties have been trampled? Are you less free today? If so, how? You know I saw some pictures today of some left wingers protesting an march in support of Israel. These people were carrying signs that said “support the insurgency”. Is that person’s civil liberties being trampled upon? I’m sorry, but choose another subject because on that front you’ve got nothing.
Karl Rove is way too smart for the Liberals. They can't beat him, they can't indict him...so they call him a "fatass".
Lefties are so stupid...
Your post, while little more than a collection of talking points, is worth responding to point-by-point. I will do so, assuming I have the time, on the front page of this blog, and we can really get rolling.
But I do not expect to undo a lifetime of programming with a single post.
This business about the New York subway attack is not universally accepted, by the way:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2092561
I should add that my concerns about eroding civil liberties have far more to do with increased government surveillance, decreasing privacy, increased police powers, and a healthy dose of increased domestic military action (a la mobilizing the national guard) than they do with whether or not a private citizen is allowed to hold a sign protesting a parade.
I take that basic level of freedom of expression as a given, and so should you.
"How exactly does conducting the war on terror exploit the victims of 9/11? Are you saying that if we are ever attacked we can’t respond with military force because you and yours think its exploiting the victims? We might as well invite the North Koreans and Iran to destroy us."
You see, if you came over here and kicked me in the nuts, and then I went over there and kicked you back, that would be responding. If I instead went over there and kicked someone who "looked a bit like you", and then stole their wallet, what's that?
Mr. Anonymous,
I can't really think of anything more petty than trolling on someone else's blog. You obviously know far less about the current political climate than you claim to.
Who are the major share holders of the major news networks? Do you have any idea who Markos Moulitsas is? If you did you would understand his comments on those mercenaries (especially when not quoted out of context).
Like me he is a recovering Republican that couldn't take any more poor leadership. James Webb is just one example of someone from the Reagan camp who can't stand Bush's politics.
Oh and that radio button that says Other? It lets you put your real name and web page, or in your case, Bill O'Reilly's web page.
You know what, lets stop this right here and now Erik. Your condescending comment about my supposedly being programmed is beyond contempt. Is everyone on the other side of the political debate simply programmed? Everyone with a differing political opinion somehow less enlightened than you?
Talking points Erik? I was merely responding to yours, which are right in line with democrat talking points that are seen every single day. Again, you have to label my opinions as someone else's rather than being things that I actually believe and have given thought to.
As far as the tone of your other posters. I’ve been labeled a Wal-Mart shopping fundamentalist Christian and loves Bill O’Reilly and is spoon fed their beliefs by Fox News. I am not a Christian, I hate O’Reilly and rarely watch the mainstream media, including Fox. I’m certain you won’t believe that, especially Craig C. Its hardly trolling to respond politically on a site that discusses politics, by the way.
I know exactly who Markos is, and you assume ignorance on my part without knowing. You also refuse to acknowledge that the mean that he said “Screw Them” too were veterans of the armed forces that were over there because they wanted to help, not mere mercenaries.
The whole point was that I totally disagree with linking to a site that said that about US veterans. It was reprehensible. I can handle that you have politics on your blog, though I admit coming here looking for gaming material, because I happen to find Erik to be one of the most talented and inventive game designers around. His management of the Adventure Paths is amazing. However, as I thumb through gaming material there is only so much I could take before saying something.
I could go on, but it is really pointless at this juncture. You can hardly have a debate when one side is "programmed" anyway. I won't puruse the debate any further and I won't be returning.
Nelson
Later.
Nelson, Your attempt to keep claiming the moral high ground, and your running away from the debate you started both seem disingenuous.
Blogs are all about a combination of talking points, venting, wish-fulfillment, and the very occasional actual crystal-clear insight, as we see above. A site you yourself frequent is mostly full of one-line zingers that are crude, hateful, and lowlife -- I'm talking about Little Green Footballs where I just read your comment #65 on some silly-shit controversy which has no substance. It led me here. Here it is: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21135_Daily_Kos-_How_Quaint#comments . At the same time you've left your halfway-decent debate with Eric here, you basically invited a bunch of redneck morons from LGF, (as opposed to the panty-wearing morons at Kos) to come and troll this blog, didn't you? Gotchya, you shit-slinger! Ha.
#65 ManInBlack 6/20/2006 08:01AM PDT
My debate with a KOS-loving liberal has ended over this site:
http://www.superunic...
I couldn't take it anymore, my blood pressure was through the roof. But its fairly typical of KOS liberals.
So, be real Johnny--er--Nelson. You're no different than anyone else. You have your moments of intellect, and your moments of taking the low road, or being condescending. Blog debates are a lot like relationship spats.
Blogs are occasionally insightful, but mostly recreation, face it, or even masturbation. As this guy says in this big newspaper says http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1788774,00.html :
...There's no point debating anything online. You might as well hurl shoes in the air to knock clouds from the sky. The internet's perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain't one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional "live audience" quickly conspire to create a "perfect storm" of perpetual bickering.
Stumble in, take umbrage with someone, trade a few blows, and within about two or three exchanges, the subject itself goes out the window. Suddenly you're simply arguing about arguing. Eventually, one side gets bored, comes to its senses, or dies, and the row fizzles out: just another needless belch in the swirling online guffstorm...
Excellent post, I mean article. All this talk in the "blogosphere" is...just talk. Don't take yourselves so seriously.
I'm no different, and here's my take on our country's prison camps.
I feel what I write very strongly. I'm really sad about what the right wing has done to America. I have problems with the left as well. But something I have no illusion about is that my "blog" amounts to a hill of beans. It's just practice, and fun. It's worth doing, but this is a playground. I'm a wannabe journalist, or better yet: Op-Ed Columnist for the Washington Times--no, the NY Times. Yeah, that' it. The power to convince. Nicholas Kristof has got the best job in the world.
By the way, didn't Bush apologize for Abu Ghraib, or however you spell it? That ought to make it all right. We're the best, us 'Mericans, and them ragheads deserve themselves. We don't need to respect such pansy niceties as our own laws--they sure as fuck wouldn't, now would they?
Also, apropos of nothing, I'm currently enjoying "Unchained". 'Least Texas Nelson and I can agree on one thing. Another one in that vein is Warren Zevon's "Keep Me in Your Heart".
Enemy combatants captured by the US and imprisoned.
Let's see...
Some prisoners were made fun of and humiliated by a few undisciplined soldiers at Abu Ghraib and the left has a cow. No, it's more than a cow, why, the US is evil and led by the evil BushHitler.
Enemy combatants captured by Al-Queda and....
They are not imprisoned but brutally tortured and beheaded and not a peep from the left. Hmmmm? Human rights watch? Anyone?
I don't dream that I can change the hatred for the US that the left has but the emperical evidence speaks for itself. Basically there is not much difference between the mind of a lefty and Al-Queda. Really. Only thing that doesn't add up to me is "why the hell are you America haters still living in the USA?"
*Rant off*
Like I mentioned earlier, there's no way I can change the thinking of you America/Bush haters. There are two sides to everything. I'm just glad I'm on the right side.
I think you totally missed the point. No-one should get tortured, beheaded etc ... The left gets all upset when America who *should know better* does that shit, but they were still upset before.
Since Anonymous slinked off into the land of self-righteousness, I will instead focus my attentions upon Daniel. Daniel, before you throw up your hands in frustration and follow in Nelson's footprints, I urge you to stick around a while. Despite the political nature of some of my posts, this is not exclusively a political blog, and there is plenty of fun stuff to talk about that I'm sure we both agree on.
That said, I think I need to respond to your post by cutting and pasting. It is an annoying and artless form of discourse, I know, but it will have to do.
>>>
ome prisoners were made fun of and humiliated by a few undisciplined soldiers at Abu Ghraib and the left has a cow. No, it's more than a cow, why, the US is evil and led by the evil BushHitler.
>>>
Some prisoners were harshly terrorized with attack dogs, rape, humiliation, psychological torture, stress positions, and worse. Let us not minimize what happened there as some sort of college prank. It is not just the left that "had a cow," but indeed the whole world.
The horrifying pictures from Abu Ghraib did more damage to America's standing in the world that the original invasion had in the first place. Those photographs will forever characterize the nature of the US occupation of Iraq for millions of people across the world. People we could really use as friends, especially in that volatile region of the world.
Some of the psychological tactics used against the detainees at Abu Ghraib were designed specifically to insult the Muslim faith. Is that a good way of winning the "hearts and minds" of the Arab people?
Those photographs _will_ be used successfully to recruit members of Al-Queda.
There is plenty of evidence that the torture at Abu Ghraib was systemic, and that it came about as a result of policy going all the way up to the president, and certainly to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Presidents are supposed to set a noble example for the American people. This is one of the reasons Bill Clinton was excoriated for his sexual affair and his subsequent lying about it. "What are we supposed to tell our children?" people often asked, voices shaking with righteous indignation.
I'm not excusing Clinton. I don't care for his politics, either. But bear with me for a moment.
The president and his administration have loosened restrictions on torture at every turn. They have referred to the Geneva Conventions as "quaint," have practised "extraordinary rendition" to ferret prisoners to countries that brazenly torture. Many have died, some of them assuredly innocent.
What the hell sort of example is that supposed to set for our children?
Is the point that this is a "new kind of war," requiring new kind of thinking at tactics? If that's you position, fine, I can respect that.
But please understand that these "new rules" involve torturing people, and that didn't used to be ok in America.
>>>
Enemy combatants captured by Al-Queda and....
They are not imprisoned but brutally tortured and beheaded and not a peep from the left. Hmmmm? Human rights watch? Anyone?
>>>
The left, by and large, takes it for granted that people shouldn't be beheaded.
Or tortured.
>>>
I don't dream that I can change the hatred for the US that the left has but the emperical evidence speaks for itself.
>>>
I do not hate America, and nor does anyone I know. Many Americans are concerned about the direction our government has gone in the last several years, but I know of no one worth listening to who hates America. In fact, most of the "outrage" of the left is driven by deep and hopeful love for the ideals of this great country.
>>>
Basically there is not much difference between the mind of a lefty and Al-Queda. Really.
>>>
Listen to yourself. You are equating a difference of opinion between fellow Americans with a struggle against violent extremists who wish to see the country destroyed, and who have murdered thousands of Americans.
Why?
Do you not acknowledge that there is a basic American right to disagree with the government, and to say so loudly and in an unhindered fashion? That is freedom of expression, sir, and there is a reason why it is first among our Constitutional rights.
I assume, as an American, that you respect those rights. I certainly respect that your different political opinions make you no less "American" than me. You are not "the enemy," you're simply an American who has looked at the facts as best as he is able, and come away with a different conclusion than me.
You are not Al-Queda. You are not the enemy. And neither am I.
We are both Americans.
I really don't understand why the 30-percenters like to down play the affect that Abu Ghraib has had on "our" 'War Against Terror'.
I happen to have personal experience with taking Iraqi's prisoner and how the rules of warfare and the Geneva Convention were directly relayed to ground forces before Operation Desert Storm. What happened in Abu Ghraib wasn't a couple of enlisted troops taking matters in their own hands, those pictures were taken because they were enacting an accepted policy for coercion that was passed down from above.
What we have created in Iraq is the new breeding ground for Al-Qiada and what we have done is placed a bulls-eye on our troops for them to be the targets of Syrian teenagers, out of work Saddam supporters, Iraqi's who hate America and anyone else that we care to throw the label of terrorist on.
Of course we feel outraged that another two service men were brutalized and killed, but the problem doesn't end with just two. 2500+ have died, and we are definitely less safe now then we were after the ground war ended in Afghanistan. (Which is becoming even more dangerous daily due to our over-commitment in Iraq.)
The only reason that we aren't talking about a true coalition of forces to take over policing actions in Iraq is because we have completely alienated all of Europe and have no one to turn to.
There is growing list of former Republicans that are sick of everything this administration stands for and we are going to see that very clearly in the coming elections.
I'm going to go ahead and apologize for coming into your blog and blasting you the way I did. It was a bad week and I was looking for some good gaming stuff... when I came across the quote I guess it was too much after a long day.
While I despise KOS for what he said you merely linking to him shouldn't have set me off the way it did. While we disagree on everything politically, I think you are a great game designer and have done amazing things at Dungeon. So, I apologize.
That said, I'd love it if you launched an "all gaming" website.
Nelson
Oh, to prove my apology sincere I went out and bought Hordes of the Abyss. Looks good so far.
Oh and contrary to popular belief I didn't look for the book at "Wal-Mart". ;)
Nelson
Hey, no problem Nelson. Welcome back to the site!
There a lot more to talk about than politics. I'll bring it up occasionally, and you can feel free to call me a dumbass and we'll have a gay old time.
Well, not a _gay_ old time, but you get my drift.
For what its worth, Nelson, sorry for intimating that you shop at Wal-Mart, apparently that really got under your skin. ;)
Well, its just that its a generalizing stereotype. Now, I do occassionally shop at Wal-Mart, its hard not to in the south. But no, I don 't like being compared to the average Wal-Mart redneck shoppers down here. Its quite an insult, if you know what I mean. There actually is a true stereotype in there, I see it everyday, and isn't pretty. If you saw it you'd be offended at being compared to it as well.
N
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