This is Why They Hate Us
Some of the same M.P.'s took a particular interest in an emotionally disturbed Afghan detainee who was known to eat his feces and mutilate himself with concertina wire. The soldiers kneed the man repeatedly in the legs and, at one point, chained him with his arms straight up in the air, Specialist Callaway told investigators. They also nicknamed him "Timmy," after a disabled child in the animated television series "South Park." One of the guards who beat the prisoner also taught him to screech like the cartoon character, Specialist Callaway said.From today's New York Times
10 Comments:
Abuse like this is so widespread, it's not even surprising to me anymore.
I can think of 7 reasons why this happened, in order of importance:
1. Herd sickness
2. Closed institution
3. Entertainment-obsessed culture
4. Dehumanizing military training
5. Black & White morality
6. Idle, uncreative minds
7. Horrible climate
All these issues must be dealt with if this kind of stuff is going to change. Unfortuately, the any military is automatically guilty of all of these, by its very nature.
I agree with you in the main, but I think you're leaving out one important element:
I think a lot of US prisons are _just_ like this. The nimrod they brought in to work out the interrogation techniques at Gitmo was a big US prison hotshot, and it seems clear that a lot of the heavy-handed interrogation tricks used at Abu-Garib (and now in Afghanistan) come from the good old U.S. of A.
So torture and maltreatment of prisoners is institutionalized stateside, and then exported to the world.
Winning hearts and minds, and all that.
Isnt America wonderful ?!?!!?
It sickens me every time I see something like this.......
This is not the Country I grew up in..... Once upon a time we were the good guys...
c'est la vie
Anyways, good to find you still alive and kicking Erik.... been a long time.
-Stone
I don't recall seeing your 'outrage' over the hundreds of thousands killed by saddam in iraq, iran, and kuwait. I don't recall seeing your outrage over the hundreds of thousands killed in the internal civil wars in Afghanistans by differing shades of muslim fanatics that culminated in the Taliban. I could go on with samples of the actions of the devout GIA in Algeria or the sharia government in Sudan, or the wahhabi perpetrators of 9/11 or the wahhabi Madrid bombers or the varied muslim terrorist attacks on israel or the Bali bombing or the muslim attacks on christians in indonesia or on the long established koranic principle in every islamic country that anyone who leaves islam is an apostate and must be killed (in 'civilized' malaysia, those who desire to leave islam are merely sent to reeducation camps).
In summary, we ARE the good guys and virtually nothing that America could likely do would change that relative status. Much of the muslim world hates us because of a core belief that the kaffir (infidel) in the dar al harb (land of war) should be killed or enslaved by muslims. For them to see a powerful, wealthy and shamelessly happy group of kaffir like America seducing their compatriots to democracy, free markets, freedom, and a right(!) to individual happiness is incredibly offensive.
To cause a relatively tiny handful of bad incidents roundly denounced by our own side (including me!)to give rise to any type of moral equivalence is patently absurd and arguably a suicidal impulse. I guess we shouldnt have liberated dachau either since I'm sure I could find dozens of individual instances of abuse by the US army during the march across Europe, not to mention our long-standing patented insensitivity towards indigenous forms of European government such as Wilhelmine militarism, Naziism and Communism. K. trout's 'dehumanizing military training and black and white morality' is what has freed hundreds of millions of people and given people like him the right to voice their opinion when the people that he allegedly feels for would snuff it out in a heartbeat. Frankly, to use a LOTR parallel, he is the innkeeper Butterbur who doesnt trust the rough and ready Rangers, willfully ignorant that the Rangers are the true source of his freedom but deeply cognizant that he would feel uncomfortable with them in a polite setting.
Let me quote something else from LOTR regarding the heroic Hobbit Samwise Gamgee, my personal hero of the series:
"Already the ring tempted him, gnawing at his will and reason. Wild fantasies arose in his mind, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call. . . at his command, the Golgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit."
If I were of age in World War Two, I would have fought and died on the front lines. It was a war against evil, and we won a great victory against tyranny. Well done, USA.
This current conflict is about property, run with a stance of misinformation and stupidity. It is not motivated as a stand against Evil (Where's our presence in the Sudan, tell me that?). You can talk about "rough and ready" Rangers, but what you are really doing is revealing how much you've bought into the controlling military fantasy they WANT you to feel. It's no different that Sauron's ring in the above quotation, IMO.
I'd prefer to use plain Hobbit sense, and understand that this conflict in a different way. WHY WHY WHY do these men hate us so much? Is it because of what we represent, or because of what we're doing? What 9if we just left. . . bought no more oil in the middle east, and just pulled out? The powerful terrorist organizations in the middle east would go back to minor wars over water rights. Conflict's over.
I can't expect you to understand the complexities of social psychology or cultural anthropology, but I can help you relate to fundamentalist Islamic groups that are willing to die in flames for a cause they believed in. Both terrorists, and the Rough and Ready rangers you so love, while different in their banners, their language, their cultures, their tactics, and their moralities, are quite similar in one respect: The both see themselves dying on the field of battle, with a flaming sword in their hands, protecting. . . whatever.
Whether I am Butterbur, Samwize, or one of the other peaceful cast of chracters from LOTR, I will continue to tend to my little garden until the day rough men come to my doorstep. I will refuse them entrance, and die with a pitchfork in my hand. I will have died bravely and with honor.
What I will NOT do, is pay a bunch of jarhead morons a percentage of my productivity to specialize in "protecting" me. I can't think of a more cowardly way to live. I don't need, want, or appreciate the "protection" of the military, expecially if it only exists to promote your self-granzdding heroic fantasies, anf further the subtle goals of the current political power in this country.
We are not the good guys becasue there ARE no good guys in a property dispute. When there's a war worth fighting, I will be there. Until then, take your black and white, dehumanizing philosophy and stuff it.
"Rough and ready Rangers". . . LOL.
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I don't recall seeing your 'outrage' over the hundreds of thousands killed by saddam in iraq, iran, and kuwait.
>>>
I will respond in full to this as a stand-alone blog post when I can carve out some free time, but it's worth noting that you didn't see my "outrage" over these crimes principally because I didn't have a blog at the time.
Those who support interaction in Iraq on humanitarian grounds have a lot of explaining to do regarding the nation's uninvolvment in the Darfur region in Sudan, in the child-warrior strife in places like Sierra Leone, and in countless other examples of brutal dictatorship.
And one of the worst dictatorships in the world is Saudi Arabia. Instead of calling them on their shit, we'd apparently prefer to hold hands with their corrupt leaders in the Rose Garden.
--Erik
Let's not forget all of our humanitarian efforts in East Timor.
Wait, when were we the good guys again?
This is an attempt to keep the issue of human rights violations in Vietnam alive.
I personally belive that trade is am important tool to bring the erring country into the realm of world affairs. Then it becomes easier to make them conform to global norms of human rights. But then in the case of China, one sees that human rights are no longer an issue, that is ever raised. China has become such a huge trading partner and a huge investor in the US economy, underwriting our massive trade deficit, that no one in the government or in business circles dare talk about human rights violations to the Chinese government or trading partners.
It is very easy for the US to refuse to do business with much smaller countries such as Burma and Cuba, as they contribute a negligible amount to the US trade balance.
There is a lot that needs to be made right in Vietnam as regards human rights. What is encouraging that the Vietnamese government has taken the step of coming to the US. St this moment Vietnam needs the US, more than vice versa. Now is when the US can engage in plain talk and ask Vietnam to confirm to certain international norms on human rights, before the US backs it for WTO membership etc.
But the US has emasculated itself with its repeated violations of human rights by torturing war time detainees and the detainees our law enforcement officers pick up form the streets of the US, under the guise of national security.
The US has refused to sign onto the ICC ( International Criminal Court ), afraid that Kissinger and Rumsfeld would some of the very first cited for gross violations of human rights and guilty of torture.
It is an interesting situation indeed.
Kim Singh
Executive Director
Asian American Public Policy Institute
Thanks for the comment, Kim. When the president of Vietnam came to Seattle last week, he certainly heard an earful from the residents of my wonderful city.
If you think that is why they hate us, you are gravely mistaken. If you believe that you are the typical idiot that believes that no matter what the situation, America is wrong, evil, imperialisitc and responsible for all the problems of the world.
The Jihadists hated us long before President Bush became President, they hated use during the "Clinton Era" and they will continue to hate us when Bush leaves. They hate us not because a couple of bad seeds did something mean to some poor man. They hate us because they despise the very things that you liberals say you embrace. It is that simple. It is that black and white. You don't need a "nuanced" view of the world to understand it.
You do however need to have a realistic view of the world. You also need to hold the rest of the world responsible for the horrible things that can and do happen.
We acted in the interest of our national security with Iraq. You can't say someone was lying when he was handed bad intelligence. It simply isn't a lie, no matter how much it fits your political needs.
As far as Sudan and Darfur. Why aren't you holding the UN accountable for that? Aren't they responsible? Aren't the bad guys here, since their troops are raping young girls and generally making the condition worse over there?
How about turnig your lens of distrust outwards rather than inwards and you might see that we are an imperfect nation trying to the right thing when we can.
But go ahead and hold our country responsible. Go ahead and blame hatred of American on our soldiers abroad. Go ahead and judge their worth by the actions of a few. (Something that leftists hate when its done to them).
It makes it so much easier to pound you in elections when the heartland of America comes out to vote.
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